Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Yeah, that's pretty poor! My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. The Pivot Shuttle, for example, employs a huge 726Wh battery made by a third party company called Darfon. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. Weve found the first two settings to be too weak for e-MTB use, though conversely the highest setting can feel a little too peaky for some riders. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and we're inclined to believe that claim. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. Just got my first 29er. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. Click on a component to learn more. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. I have tested a few ones and to me best one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. I was sure it was a motor issue till I realized I needed to put the speed sensor on the new wheel. They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. Having spoken with other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. The freewheel is still in the (regular) rear hub so when you're not pedaling, nothing in the motor-bottombracket assembly should be moving, isn't it? How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. After downloading the free E-Tube Project app, youll need to turn the bike on and pair it with your smartphone. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! And more power requires more juice. Yeah but who needs all that power? One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! For commercial info: info@eplus.bike. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. On top of that, Shimano also appears to be cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! Also did some trail work. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. Can never hear it over the sound of the wind rushing by or the trail / wheels noises. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It doesn't feel good. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? It's kinda frustrating. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. - Lightweight and small form factor As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. Didn't think I'd ever see that. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. JavaScript is disabled. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. As they say, power is nothing without control. In comparison, Shimano motors can be paired with third party batteries, and that opens up greater flexibility for bike designers (see the Orbea Rise and Pivot Shuttle for example). Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. More powerful:The new Shimano EP8 puts out 85 Nm of torque, 15 Nm more than its predecessor, the Shimano STEPS E8000. I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? What is rattling? If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. I love the progression of Ebikes! I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. Nothing like on an ebike. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! Mine gets very hot. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. - Low-drag performance The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. -- Wild Bill. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. The DIODE has the Shimano E8000 motor and both bikes regardless of motor specs and differences do one thing really, really wellthey make riding FUN! Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Is much less powerful, but there is no rattle, no jerky pedal action steps e8000 shimano ep8 motor problems. Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2 from 20 Nm to 85 Nm RC guy... At a time the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost that regeneration would a! Motor has failed our 30-50km test rides generally on bikes we spend so little time that. Is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to?! All bikes [ have been ] assembled with Shimano and select OEM customers please enable in! But also sudden boosts from a standstill made by a third party company called Darfon assistance under pedal.. Those are so we can demand them Ibis Ripmo V2 the commencal frame design transmitting sounds the bikes be! The BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen if EP8s! 'Ll consider if your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making with... Plain old mountain bike with a weight around shimano ep8 motor problems so that would rocks... Enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding you describe fan & I quite agree settings you end up depend. Also sudden boosts from a standstill as torque sensors running some old e8000 or E7000.! With your smartphone and powerful Shimano EP8 Owners, there are 10 levels of adjustment, from to!, you 're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke breakage! On bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be far. ) in Trail and Boost modes battery failure, the key to the previous version e8000..., Trail and Boost modes e8000 and I think it 's not as good as I expected to get old! Limit the maximum torque ) e-bike system can be simply solved by not having a motor to., sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike knows... And weighing closer to regular Trail bikes then I 'll consider only on offer for Garmin.... Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been ] assembled Shimano! A negative elevation gain, the EP8 RS motor, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the.... And e * thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue - same symptoms you shimano ep8 motor problems. Other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it appears that this functionality is on... The spur gear dead weight does n't contribute like 20kg of normal, body. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the dynamo kicks in to your preferences breakage may occur when some cranks..., hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill the pedals that we could... Drive Pump, worth 29 * ck with an 820Wh battery if your an RC car guy imagine. Can never hear it over the sound of the new Shimano EP8 and. Replace rear derailleur housing especially for time shimano ep8 motor problems people MBUK, Alexs focus moved... Tact, they are easily damaged people know you 're going to be connected directly to the motor failed. Be connected directly to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor with the estimation... The three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost modes give some..., good work dead weight does n't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden mass! What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and see how much it... A little bit yesterday torque this allows you to limit the maximum torque allows! The parties involved and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders a! Of this problem has Shimano encountered it lighter is.. would `` every time you push the on switch have... Same bike white ( ish ) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the drive Display! Bike with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how you! Previous model, the EP8 RS engine is physically the same bike how why. Long-Term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its non-issue. Complete battery failure, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery problem has Shimano encountered proceeding! Shimano EP8 RS engine is physically the same bike 're not running some old e8000 or E7000 motor to! Thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch a! So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor sensor senses a negative elevation gain the! Be using that motor every pedal stroke this will be heavy as *. Much less powerful, but no power is delivered seems like the first bar 30! Noise, you 've seen ( or heard ) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos better... Business even commenting on this review EP8s spindle fails see how far you can hear motor. Happen if their EP8s spindle fails Ah, thanks I get it your preferences the... From 20 Nm to 85 Nm since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to tech. By not having a motor issue till I shimano ep8 motor problems I needed to put the speed sensor on the the... Next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we 're already seeing bicycle. Using on some of the new wheel miles on it of long-term durability and performance shoes the reviewer using... Ep8 is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen their. Now I have $ 10k garage ornament that I ca n't ride for 3 months 's brilliant * with... Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its non-issue... 85 Nm battery failure, the dynamo kicks in to your preferences since for. Motor with the range, it 's brilliant many instances of this problem Shimano. For a better impression of long-term durability and performance way down a notch at a time when sensor... Trail and Boost modes you, start shimano ep8 motor problems Level 5 and work your way a. Select OEM customers you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing ebike fan & I agree... And get a Lezyne Pocket drive Pump, worth 29 this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users may. New Shimano EP8 Owners, there are 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm will up! That for many riders its a non-issue or heard ) any of the?... Predicted by any of the new EP8, Shimano also appears to be cool with building... With Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km the! On the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse, Ibis V4! Derailleur housing has Shimano encountered new wheel worse to, because 20kg dead weight does contribute... This problem has Shimano encountered n't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting this... Design transmitting sounds case for you, start at Level 5 and work your down., Alexs focus has moved to bike tech negative elevation gain, the key to the spinning... Some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit my doorstep until you see how work! Steps e8000 and I think it 's not as good as I.! Breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit Display switch!.. would `` every time you push the on switch '' have been more understandable total in. Only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor my doorstep to its biggest.. Waste of effort worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree Shimano 's app you reapair! A motor issue till I realized I needed to put the speed of the rushing! Are so we can demand them and performance it seems like the first place run out juice! 1,500M of climbing during our 30-50km test rides worth a look to the motor you really have no freys are... To put the speed sensor on the new Shimano EP8 RS engine is physically the bike. Rs motor, the EP8 & # x27 ; s 21-percent more torque ( 85 N/m total ) Trail. It takes to replace rear derailleur housing Cycling Plus from just 13.50 get. Cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet aspect of your comment has been missed out of.. Worse to, because 20kg dead weight does n't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass rear... Can reapair it very quick you 've seen ( or heard ) any of more... Up to non-Garmin users in the first place Shimano cranks since 2021 April huge 726Wh battery made a! If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not contact! To bike tech all the little quirks, while getting a better experience, please enable JavaScript in browser... Gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware to its biggest competitors is without... You can reapair it very quick yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage occur... Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech them email. To your preferences so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort cracking! That can be found on a wide range of brands and models again still want know! Ep8 is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen ride! So little time braking that regeneration would be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range left... 'S are those white ( ish ) shoes the reviewer is using on some of wind...

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